Béliveau: Veterans, not rookies, must carry Habs

posted by Dave Stubbs at 6h40 EST on Dec 11


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Canadiens great Jean Béliveau (right) with his old friend and Detroit Red Wings rival Gordie Howe last March at a Bell Centre fundraising gala in Béliveau's name.
John Mahoney, Gazette

Don't expect a 20-year-old rookie or a pair of farm-team imports to haul the Canadiens out of their rut, or otherwise save the club's season. That responsibility, says Canadiens icon Jean Béliveau (seen here in a classic 1960s photo), falls squarely on the shoulders of the team's veterans.

And from where Béliveau sits - in his regular seats three rows behind the Canadiens bench, near enough to see the veins bulging on the neck of head coach Guy Carbonneau - the club no longer has a speed advantage in the NHL, and it could use a little more muscle.

The 10-time Stanley Cup winner and Hockey Hall of Famer speaks to Inside/Out's Dave Stubbs about the current struggles of the club that's been a part of his life for more than 50 years.



DAVE STUBBS
The Gazette

Don’t expect a 20-year-old rookie or a pair of farm-team imports to haul the Canadiens out of their rut, or otherwise save the club’s season.

That responsibility, says Canadiens icon Jean Béliveau, falls squarely on the shoulders of the team’s veterans.

And from where Béliveau sits – in his regular seats three rows behind the Canadiens bench, near enough to see the veins bulging on the neck of head coach Guy Carbonneau – the club no longer has a speed advantage in the NHL, and it could use a little more muscle.

“It’s unfair for anyone to think that the two young guys they’ve just brought up from Hamilton (defenceman Ryan O’Byrne and forward Maxim Lapierre) are going to save this team,” Béliveau said yesterday.

“They could be a big help, but they need the help of the veterans. You don’t bring in a young player and ask him to save the team for the veterans. It should be, and it’s always been, the other way around.”

Veterans should adjust for rookies

It’s the task of the team’s seasoned players, the Hall of Famer and 10-time Stanley Cup winner adds, to make adjustments to accommodate the younger talent.

“I remember (coach) Toe Blake one day told me, ‘Jean, I think I’ll put all the youngsters coming up with you,’ ” Béliveau said. “That was fine with me. I centred Gilles Tremblay, Fergy (John Ferguson), Bobby Rousseau, Yvan Cournoyer and *** Duff, who was a little older.

“Every time I had a new winger, I told him, ‘It’s not up to you to change your style, it’s up to me to adjust mine. I’m the veteran. Play your own style. That’s what brought you to the NHL.’ ”

For a feature eight Novembers ago, I sat with Béliveau in his seats to watch a game through his eyes. The Canadiens ended a nine-game winless skid that night with a 2-1 victory over Anaheim.

Behind the bench, Alain Vigneault exhaled a long sigh of relief at the final siren, and Béliveau remarked how the Canadiens head coach’s complexion turned a slightly warmer shade of chalk.

The win was one of the club’s 35 that season, to go with 34 losses, nine ties and four overtime defeats. The Canadiens missed the playoffs, and 20 games into 2000-01, at 5-13-2, Vigneault was fired and replaced by Michel Therrien.

Who surrendered the reins to Claude Julien, who yielded them to Bob Gainey, who turned them over to Carbonneau.

Names have changed, situation hasn't

“In the 1950s, the ’60s and the ’70s, we always had a great player,” Béliveau said that evening. “They don’t have that now, and they’re missing it. Now there’s no one so good you can use him to help the others, because they all need some help. ...

“I know what these guys are going through,” he added. “In my day, we had sessions like these and we suffered from the stress. So I can imagine what they’re feeling now. They’re probably hurting more emotionally than physically.”

Fast forward 97 months, and it’s clear that, while many of the names have changed, much of the situation has not.

To have the salvation of the Canadiens dropped in the crease of rookie goalie Carey Price is entirely unreasonable, Béliveau believes.

“The last time we were in the playoffs (in 2005-06), it was Cristobal Huet who put us there,” he said. “If you’re going to have problems with your goalies now (Huet is recovering from a groin injury and Price is playing like a promising rookie who’s learning on the job), it makes your position a lot worse.

“I’ve seen Price facing 35 to 40, sometimes more shots per game. I’ve said all along, ‘The poor kid, if he’s going to get that many, there are going to be nights when he won’t stop them all.”

No matter the Canadiens’ current skid, with five straight home losses heading into tonight’s game against Tampa Bay, Béliveau jokes that he hasn’t yet had to scalp his tickets; he still finds eternally grateful friends and guests to join he and his wife, Élise, in their four seats.

If asked, he’ll remark on the speed of the Canadiens, wondering whether it’s an optical illusion, and he’ll comment on the dart board that seemingly produces Carbonneau’s lines.

He’ll also question the depth of toughness on the team, which he says can ill afford to lose a pillar like defenceman Mike Komisarek for 17 minutes as happened during Saturday’s 5-1 drubbing by Carolina.

“I’ve always thought that one of the reasons for our success has been our speed, that we were a better skating team than most,” Béliveau said.

No longer have the skating edge

“I’m not going to talk about (last Tuesday’s) Detroit game. We were outplayed in every part of that. But Nashville (three nights earlier) was faster than we were, and most of the teams we play are at least as fast. We don’t have the skating edge on others that we once did.”

On line shuffling: “I suppose Carbonneau has just been trying to find the right combinations. You must ask, does he really have the players to stay with on one line for a longer time?”

On toughness: “On the whole, we look a little small. While I’ve respected Carbonneau’s philosophy about not having one or two big guys, it’s funny – I remember one of the reasons we lost the Cup from 1961-64 after having won five straight was because we were manhandled. So (GM) Frank Selke brought in Fergy and Ted Harris from the American league, and traded a little earlier for Lou Fontinato.”

The much more rugged Canadiens won the championship four times from 1965-69.

In theory, at least, Béliveau believes the team’s recent rough patch could be smoothed over with a few victories.

“We certainly can’t blame the fans (for their impatience), because they’ve been tremendous the past few years when all of them haven’t watched the greatest of games – myself included,” he said.

“A few wins would change everything, as it always has. That’s what I’ve been sweating and wishing for.”


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von's picture
Much more constructive comments than Lafleurs b.s.

Chuck's picture
Beliveau's article should be posted in the Hab's dressing room and be required reading for the entire team, management included. . . . ______________________________________________ "Vote Saku for All-Star... or little Timmy gets it!!!"

A. Berke's picture
I agree on that. Of course like I already said, it should be a required reading for the posters too. Ali B.

A. Berke's picture
Mille merci M. Beliveau. As always you are the real class act in and out of hockey (and you have been always my favourite player). To all the posters who have been inundating these pages lately with one liner senseless, angry and/or meaningless postings (the ones asking for Carbo's head appear to be the majority): Please read and RE-READ Le Gros Bill's comments. It's also a lesson in civility for the some that seem to have lost it. YES WE ALL ARE FRUSTRATED WITH THE CURRENT SITUATION our Habs are in, but we need to support the team and the coaching staff. Changing coaches every other year doesn't do jack, if it did, we would have better results in the last 14 years. The veterans must do their fair share and they haven't. As an example: I'm flabbergasted when I see some posters complaining that the team loses a lot of face-offs and turn around and blame Carbo. For heaven's sake Carbo can teach the players how to do it but at the end, the players have to perform on the ice. If they don't or can't, it's their fault. Similarly, there's a lot of talk about Carbo doesn't have a "system" or "the players don't believe in Carbo's system" blah blah, appear to be a common thread. Excuse me, but if I were a coach and the players did not perform because they did not believe in my system (whether it's a good or a bad one), they'd be riding the pine to the end of the season or be traded away. Players don't pick the system, they're paid handsomely to play it (when they played we/they won), just like a corporal does not run the army. Last but not least, Gainey has done (and probably still doing) his utmost to get a good forward and one or two strong man but with the current nhl and CBA rules, it's not easy to trade for players and most of them don't want MTL, besides we don't have much to give away. So blaming Gainey doesn't help in anything either. If we can see that we need these kind of players, Gainey is not blind and has about a hundred times the hockey knowledge that we collectively have in these pages, he's aware of that problem too. I hope the veteran players come to the ice tonight to play as they should for 60 minutes. Thank you. Ali B.

TommyB's picture
Ali Berke, Thank you for your level-headed comments. You are not alone in your frustration at the posters on here who have turned, what was last year an excellent blog or forum for discussing the Habs, into an online version of Yuk Yuk's, complete with constant one-liners, mockumentaries, and even recently (with a bag over his head),the unknown comic! I can only hope for an improvement in my favorite hockey team's fortunes...this will drive these people away quite quickly. When they have nothing to harp about, or make fun of, they will quietly disappear until the next opportunity arises for them to garner more attention.

The Teacher's picture
Mr. Beliveau is a very smart man. Thank you.

doug's picture
He truly is amazing and so astute; total class act.

I think you have to read between the lines and understand he is calling on the leadership of the team to take the reins. Gainey, Carbo and Muller were all highly-respected team captains in their day. If the veteran players aren't following their leadership, that is a cue to the youngsters that there is a problem and they don't know how seriously to take it. If, say, Muller says "do this" and then Kovi / Koivu / Markov / Brisebois / Ryder or whoever else do something else entirely, then what do the kids do? Who do they listen to? In a leadership vacuum, the ship sinks. Something is amiss in there, and if BG is giving the coaches a little leeway in solving the problem themselves, I have to wonder how long before his patience runs out and he takes the coaching reins on himself again. Where is Kovalev the last few games? How come none of the lines are clicking? For once, I am finding myself questioning Koivu's commitment - yesterday he was AWOL from the function at the Children's Hospital. When was the last time he balked at that?

earl's picture
Translation: With all the hand wringing and looking to *someone else* for the solutions to their problems, Beliveau just handed a nicely worded to-do list to a number of people. On the ice, Mr B has identified a group who should immediately begin taking the lions share of responsibility for righting the course. The patriarch has now given his advice and guidance, and perhaps the players, in some small gesture of respect, will respond in a way that shows they understand what he's saying.

sidhu's picture
Mr Béliveau's comments are the best I've heard all season. He truly is a gentleman. This sums it up in my opinion - "They don’t have [a big star] now, and they’re missing it. Now there’s no one so good you can use him to help the others, because they all need some help...."

Beliveau is quite subtle in what he says. That's not only for reasons of diplomacy--he's still close to the club--and because he is a gentleman, but also because he knows how to get across an unplesant message without doing more harm than good. What he was talking to Dave Stubbs about was leadership or, more accurately, the lack of leadership on this Canadiens team. I remember Beliveau helping newcomers to the team, no matter their age, in the Sixties. When *** Duff joined the Canadiens, from the Leafs by way of the Rangers, he already was a veteran, but it was Beliveau who helped him settle in to his new team. Beliveau told his new linemates not to bother about adjusting to his style of play, that he would adjust to them, in order to ease the pressure, the burden, on them. That was a typical piece of leadership from the veteran captain. The fact is that any player will try to adjust to the styles of his linemates when he joins a new line; it is hardly avoidable. But Beliveau made sure that his new linemates did not worry unduly about it and openly took the responsibility on himself of ensuring they played well together as a line. For the same reason, Beliveau stresses that we--the fans, the media, management and the players--ought not to put on new young players the burden of turning the team around. That places undue pressure on them. The truth is that we all hope (hope rather than expect) the new youngsters will help turn the team around; that is the reason they were called up. But the veteran players should--both publicly and within the team--take on the responsibility for where the team is and where it is going, not only because that eases the burden on the youngsters but also because it is in fact the veterans' responsibility. It helps in commanding respect if the veteran players are also real stars, but, regrettably, ours are not (with perhaps one exception). Some of our veterans are having problems playing to their capabilities this season, too, which makes things even more difficult. That still ought not to prevent them from trying to assert leadership in a manner that commands respect by openly taking on responsibility for the team's performance or lack of it. What have our veterans done in this regard? Not much, from what I can see. There have been no team meetings, no public statements.

Girth's picture
I have to agree with your interpretation... Leadership & strength of character are what the team needs. However, it seems that many of the players we depend on to display these qualities are too busy finding their own game. However, I believe that through adversity comes opportunity. For example, I think this may be an opportunity for Higgins to display his apparent ease with the leadership role. Perhaps he could spend some time with Beliveau to see if some of that legendary deplomacy might be transferable.

I have been saying for a long time that the Habs need a tough guy, and I do mean a tough guy, read: Laraque, Boogaard. It can only help the team by making all of our players feel a couple of inches taller, several pounds heavier and a whole lot braver: = confidence/production. Beliveau feels the same way.... wow! Come on BG... you have tried everything else. you have nothing to lose and everything to gain!

Montreal doesn't need to "tank" the season, the way things are going they will find the bottom naturally. I agree with the poster who said if Stamkos or Tavares refused to sign with Montreal like Lindros did with the Nordiques, it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing although highly unlikely. I'm sure they have much better agents than Eric did (Mon and Dad). The Nordiques eventually won a Stanley Cup with the harvest they reaped from Philly as the Avalanche, albeit aided by our Canadiens when Reggie Houle kindly donated Patrick Roy to the cause.

gumper's picture
It doesn't take great inferencing skills to figure out that Jean really doesn't think much of our current team.

habsguy's picture
Guy Lafleur already had his say....and Jean Beliveau has added his coments, and because he isn't saying what YOU want him to say, he's not giving "his true assessment of the team". So what, is he lying so he doesn't make the national news.....Come there Bud, did you ever think he sits there game after game, 3 rows back, knows the team, the players and the coaching staff, the goings on, the ins and the outs and made a true assessment of the team.

habsguy's picture
you really think Chicago and Pits "tanked" the season for higher draft choices...come on !!!!!

Naila Jinnah's picture
I really like Beliveau's take on the current situation, and it was a great idea to ask him what he thought. I definitely agree that it's not up to the rookies to change the world. The vets are the ones that are lagging, and they're the ones who need to find ways to win, using the rookies' talents to their advantage. I wonder if they understand that it's their job to "CREATE A REACTION" (just like Ford).

As Bob McKenzie reports, the Ducks need to clear some room for Neidermeyer's return and may get rid of Brad May and/or Shane Hnidy. Neither one is a heavyweight (or a talented hockey player), but either one could add some toughness to the Habs' lineup. Either one would be a popular guy with his teammates. As much as I hate the guy, May could play on the Habs fourth line, and Hnidy is good enough to be the Habs 6th D, ahead of Breezer. The Habs should trade Gorges if they aren't going to play him and can't put in Hamilton without losing him on waivers. Sorry folks, but adding a guy like Brad May is a little easier than trading for Lecavalier, Marleau, Hossa or any of those other guys we wish we could steal.

tleblanc's picture
I couldn't agree more and after watching the highlights from all of the western hockey last night you'd think they are playing the East coast style of hockey and vice versa. The body checks and hammering are incredible. In my view it would be very difficult for any team in the east to play equal to most of the teams in the west because they are playing tougher straight up hockey. They're playing as if its like the playoffs now. We should take note and learn.

Unfortunately, what this team needs to do is tank for several seasons, and get the high 1st-round draft picks, same as Chicago has done, same as Pittsburgh did. I'm not sure how we would all feel about that, though. In response to the comment about Stamkos or Taveres pulling a Lindros & refusing to sign with the Habs - Quebec received a HUGE package for Lindros, and I suspect that Taveres would command a similar price, from which we would undoubtedly benefit. It can be argued that Quebec became a far better team because of the trade than if they had kept a willing Lindros.

A. Berke's picture
I just posted below the same thing, NOW there's a lottery among the last 5 finishers, so finishing last DOESN'T guarantee the top pick. Pens twice in a row and chicago won the lottery and got to pick first in the last 3 years. Ali B.

WindsorHab-10's picture
Leadership starts with the veterans, not the 20 year olds. Unfortunately our veterans thus far are gutless and useless. Time to clean house and bring players that want to play for the love of the game, not money. I have zero hope for this edition of the Canadiens.

Corio's picture
"And from where Béliveau sits - in his regular seats three rows behind the Canadiens bench, near enough to see the veins bulging on the neck of head coach Guy Carbonneau - the club no longer has a speed advantage in the NHL, and it could use a little more muscle." - Jean-Beliveau LOL, love the bit about the veins in Carbo's neck.. :p I agree with Beliveau though he knows what he's talking about.

Gilles Poisson's picture
Not tough enough? Not skilled enough? Not Price's fault? Not coach Guy's fault? Not the fans fault? These sound like the ravings of a madman.

mjames's picture
Jean Beliveau is a not only a great hockey player but a true gentleman and an upstanding human being. I do not think it is in his nature to give his true assessment of the team. Actually I do not think he could do it because if he did speak out his comments would make the national news. I think he was being his charitable self by saying that the team was small and did not have a skating advantage. I am not sure what he meant what he said that Carbo juggled his lines because he did not have the players to stay together. What we need is an interview with Guy Lafleur to get a candid review of the team's play. Every article on the team is about line juggling. Come on guys did a little deeper. Line juggling is not the problem. I am beginning to think if you speak out you might get banned by the team. mjames

Please ... lets leave Guy Lafleur out of this. I'll take Mr. Beliveau's wisdom over Guy's backhanded comments any day. While I loved Guy as the most dynamic Hab since the Rocket, he was and is not the sharpest tool in the shed. As a player, Lafleur had dash, flair and a great shot but is not a incisive analyst of the game. Why do you think he's never been a coach at any level? Le Gros Bill, on the other hand, could have been a coach or GM, but found the perfect organisational fit as the ambassador. He remains a student of the game, while 'tit Guy is the kid in the back of the class firing spit balls at his classmates. As for tanking the season, get real! The Habs just need to keep filling the prospect pipeline and let the drafting cards fall where they may. So far BG has shown that he makes his draft decisions based on his scouts assessments, ignoring the screams of the french press and other fanatics, many of which are posting here. I hate to say it, but we need to model one of original six rivals, the Wings, on how to build and maintain a winner. How many top 5 or top 10 draft picks have the Wings had in the last 10 or 15 years? Yet they have been the most successful franchise in the league since the early 90's. That building process started in the mid-eighties and great scouting has been the key. I believe (at least I hope) that Gainey is following the same path, so les canadiens' next glory years last for a couple of decades.

TommyB's picture
What you need is an interview with a former player, present player, or anyone who will voice the same opinion that you have been voicing for over a year now. To suggest that Beliveau camouflages his comments and opinion, or is afraid to speak out against the organization....how self-serving is that? I believe Mr. Beliveau could, and would, say whatever he is thinking. I don't think he is afraid of anyone.

I don't know what you folks were reading! Not critical? Beliveau is calling out the veterans on the team. He says the Habs aren't fast enough or tough enough (the latter is easier to find than the former). He basically says: find a tough guy. And he implies that overall, Gainey has not provided the coach with enough talent to put together solid lines. I thought he was rather critical and pretty blunt for such an elder statemen so close to the team. Then again, maybe my perception is warped because I don't listen to the hysteria of sports radio.

When the great Belliveau speaks people should listen. He talks about what everyone here knows, they need an elite player. Since you can't trade for one and nobody will go to Montreal willingly, unfortunately there is only one other choice, finish last. Next year would be a good time to do that.

A. Berke's picture
Keep in mind that finishing dead last doesn't secure the top prospect, there's the lottery for the last five finishers. So theoretically, the last team may end up with the fifth best pick instead of the top choice. Ali B.

kevin m's picture
I've been entertaining this same idea for a few years now. What's the point of finishing just below the middle of the pack year after year. The top 2-3 prospects are already taken in the draft each year & we're left with guy's who will have to toil for a couple of years in the AHL. Other teams like Chicago are picking up players who are ready to play & make a difference, right now. When was the last time the Habs drafted a player who could start for them immediately? Is this team so good that players like Kane or Toews would have had to refine their skills in the "A" for a couple of years before they would be ready for "Prime Time"? My only fear with this team finishing the year in last place, which would only be a tad further down the standings than what most experts predicted anyway, is that when they make their selection for Stamkos or Taveres these guys pull a Lindros & refuse to sign with us. Could it get any worse than that?

tleblanc's picture
Actually I would suggest that maybe that would be the best thing that could happen. Let's see I beleive that Sakic and Forsberg have ended up with quite a few more rings than Lindros did. In either event you end up with some pretty dynamite players

Blitzen's picture
I think the team still has this mindset about young players. The problem is that, in the good ole days, the Habs were stacked so keeping the kids down made some sense. But now it makes no sense at all, when the guys ahead of them are mostly third line plumbers. I would rather they lose, badly, with youth who will learn than be an average team made up of plumbers.

tleblanc's picture
Clearly he still pays attention and offers some sound advice. The problem here is that they run contrary to Carbo's idea of how the team should play. We need at least one if not two policeman. We need an impact player. But these won't happen so if I was Carbo the one thing I could do to change things up would be to play like I was on the road until you turn things around. Bowman used to take the team to hotels outside the city during the playoffs to keep friends and family away. Tht is exactly what I would do immediately. The team plays and stays on the road (even when at home) until we've won 5 in a row at home.

joe-hab-nuno's picture
I was thinkng about the same thing a couple of days ago. If they have such a terrible home record why not bring the team to a nearby town, practicce there, then drive back to mtl for their home games.

J.T.'s picture
I think it's great that Mr.Beliveau is still a fan through all this. If someone who's not only lived the glory years, but *been* the glory years can bear to watch the state of the team right now, who are we to lose patience? Dave, I'm glad you asked him for his take on the situation. I appreciate his stoic, loyal approach to cheering for the team these days. I wonder though, if when he gets home from the game, he ever goes into a private room in his house and kicks something? Probably not...but then, he's a better fan than I am! I also wonder whether the Gazette is the only one asking for Mr.Beliveau's opinion. Guys like Chris Higgins and Saku Koivu who purport to be leaders on the team could learn an awful lot from talking to Le Gros Bill. I like to think maybe they approach him once in a while, put their egos aside and ask him for help.

Robert L's picture
There isn't much that be disagreed upon here. Beliveau is such a straight shooter, maybe each player should sit down and ask, "What's wrong with my game, Jean?" I've though about how the coaches rotate tri - annually but the team fate stays the same. We've gotten younger, which is sometimes better, and that is it. Carbonneau is under fire each time he twitches. He has to coach the team he has at his disposal, and not the one he wishes he had. The Canadiens lack a player whose presence would make every individual talent better. I'm beginning to fear that the coach will be sacrificed once more should failling continues and I dread it would not make much impact. Wonder what Jean thinks of firing coaches? http://wwwrealitycheckeyesontheprize.blogspot.com/2007/12/why-blaming-co... http://wwwrealitycheckeyesontheprize.blogspot.com/2007/11/putting-canadi...

Girth's picture
Good points! I believe the current management has learned to be selective about media input. However, Beliveau's comments come from within the Canadiens family. These will surely reverberate within the organization and will perhaps elicit a few responses. In any case, it will be interesting to see in how many different ways these can be interpreted by the various media streams. I've bookmarked your blog site and will revisit regularly. Thanks.

Robert L: Yours is one of the better posts I've seen. I love the translated column and your quote about Carbonneau having to coach the team he has instead of the one he wishes is dead on. Reading the blogs, with the knee-jerk comments to fire Carbonneau, is a waste of time. I'll end by saying, this losing streak will end, and a winning streak will happen. And, this team will make the playoffs.

Robert, I like your blog a lot. And I agree with you that firing Carbonneau is not the solution to the Canadiens' problems, although he does bear some responsibility for them. The Canadiens have a recent history of firing coaches after about two seasons (give or take); the short-term result is that the team rallies and plays better for a while, only to subside into its usual state of mediocrity. This team is short on talent; with hard work we can certainly play better than we have recently, probably make the playoffs and suffer our usual early exit. Without an injection of talent, especially offensive talent, we are not going to get very far. We boast about our great prospects; I just hope they're as good as we think they are.

Robert L's picture
I'm pleased that you each enjoyed the posts. I think the Habs are at the point where they require a different kind of shakeup than a bench shuffle. They are desperate for the one player, that game breaking center, that can take eveyone's game to higher level. The trouble with that, is that Gainey simply cannot manufacture trades at will, out of thin air. Until such an opportunity arises, the Canadiens are forced with having to concentrate on making their own better. Tough times like this actually enables improvement - but is damn hard to watch.

Girth's picture
RE: "We boast about our great prospects; I just hope they're as good as we think they are." Some, of course, will flourish while others fall short... only time will tell. However, the risk increases in situations where leadership is less than ideal. For that reason, I would suggest that in addition to bolstering the current on-ice talent, we need to focus on demonstrating some strength of character.