Game 27: Red Wings drop sagging Canadiens

The largest fall-off of our play compared to the season start is the passing accuracy and the two checking lines. I was shock to see our passes were so bad. Our checking lines are not skating hard anymore. May be all those line mixing have something to do with passing. There were also many blind passes that were intercepted easily by opponents. If the team can't hold on to the puck, how can you create scoring chances. Our team also miss Markov's outlet passes. It makes everybody looks worse. Some just dump the puck out of our zone and others try to pass but miss. Just shows you how critical is Markov to the flow of our game. Defensively, our two checking lines do not have the jumps like before. It allows the opponents easily gain the zone and park players in front of our net. Look how Begin tried to play like Markov and we all know the result.

Bill, Im just saying he should have made a statement anyway he could, I mean if Yzerman and Beliveau werent putting the puck in the net, making great plays, being solid defensively, then I could see your arguement. And Im 37, been following for years so Im not really a bandwagon fan.

Another thing why is Koivu always beyond criticism? So Dandenault jumped to his rescue, is that really something to be proud of? The gloves shouldve been off before dandenault came into the picture. I like koivu, he certainly has his qualities, battled cancer, but is he captain material? A captain should be a game-changer and should drop the gloves when needed, and yes I think Saku missed a great chance to make a statement and turn the tide for this team.

The announcers on the Versus channel, which is where I watched this game in LA last night, noted that even on the Habs powerplay the Red Wings had more men at the point of attack (i.e. on the puck)than the Canadiens did. They were shorthanded and were still controlling the play. What was so dispiriting was that the habs didn't even look like they were trying. If you can't get up to play the best team in the league, then who will they get up to play? Whatever talent has come up from Hamilton is rapidly learning very bad habits and becoming as dysfunctional as the rest of the crew. We need a balanced coaching staff that has some offense oriented coaches, knows the capabilities of each player & when & how to use them, and who can get them back to some fundamentals like passing which is absolutely attrocious. Our forwards may be speedy but team momentum is being snuffed out with incredibly sloppy passing. I think that's the best we can hope for with this team that lacks size and true goal scoring punch. Another couple of weeks of this and the season will be pretty much a write off.

First off: great site! I've been reading a lot of the articles and posts. Makes me feel like I'm back in Montreal (I'm yet another Hab fan in Leaves nation) I watched last night's game against the Wings, and it was pretty tough to watch our team play. So much potential but no confidence. There are fans ready to axe Carbo and trade some players to get us kick started again. Personally, I don't think either of those moves will help a great deal. Here's what I think the Habs need to start doing: 1. Stop blasting players in public (seen this a few times and I agree): it may have worked for Therrien, but Carbo should not do this too often. You can easily lose a player's trust that way. 2. Don't fire Carbo: unlike what many have been saying on this site, he shouldn't be fired. The only thing he needs right now for Bob to come out and publicly back him. That should get his (and not to mention the rest of the coaching staff's) confidence going again. I really do think he is a good coach, he just needs some guidance from Bob. 3. Stop juggling the lines (so much): The best teams know how to break out of a slump, and most often has little to do with changing the lines. Players need to gel with their linemates. 4. Play a little more offensive hockey: A lot of the players on this team would do very well outside of Montreal. And we've seen that time and time again when a player is traded. I've noticed that with the past few coaches, the focus has always been defense. I think a little change of pace would help since many of these guys are more offensive players. Make use of the talent is what I'm getting at. Just take a look at Ribs out in Dallas, he's been doing better there then he has here. 5. Focus on increasing the number of shots + scoring opportunities: One thing the Detroit commentators pointed out about why the Wings win is because they just keep shooting the puck, no matter where they are. In fact, they pointed out that the Wings shoot the puck the most. I think we should steal a page out of their playbook and shoot more often. More shots will increase our scoring opportunities.

There was no surprise about last nights game, Montreal was simply out classed by a team that has more depth and talent then the current Montreal team. There is nothing to be ashamed of Montreal isn't the only team suffering this kind of disease. Problem is Montreal fans have zero patience for this kind of performance in an organization that has had similar performances in spades over the past 5-10 years of rebuilding. Frustrating, absolutely! Is Montreal still in it's rebuilding phase? It looks like it but herein lies the problem. There is no excuse why the organization is in it's current state in terms of talent other then poor management. Montreal has been plagued with poor management and has given the job to anyone who dons a Montreal hall of fame label. Just because you were good on the ice doesn't mean you know how to make the right choices for a hockey organization or team. If we had proper management in place at the time Serge Savard was up there this team would be in a whole different place right now in my opinion. The damage done from that time is still reverberating through the organization.. Also the inability for Montreal to acquire any power forwards prior to the season kicking off was a huge mistake. Not sure what happened there but that was something everyone can agree Montreal desperately needed. Things will get better but some money will need to be thrown around before that will happen..

heard someone say lapierre and o'byrne were called up...anyone else hear this?

fisher a possible bust? why, because he had a rough first year at minnesota? the dude is barely a year removed from high school! do you have any idea how long it takes for a high school D to turn into an NHL D? gimme a break. criticize the habs for 2003, but let's hold off on he past year or two. mcdonah and pacioretty are both going the the US's WJC camp...so are ryan white and PK subban for canada. let's chill. of course, we suck something fierce right now. good grief. Bob, please, we're patient. we've been patient for 15 years. how much longer do we have to keep waiting? we keep injecting youth into our lineup year after year...but the results never change. players, coaches management change, and the result is a team that refuses to work consistently. how does that get fixed?

24 cups.....here here, well said !!

Cournoyer 12 - I too was/am dismayed that the Habs didn't select Getzlaf in 2003(or Carter, Parise or Brown) over Amdrei K. Not to mention Urquhart over Bergeron, Carle, or Weber. But that was four years ago. Time to forget it and move on. I know I have. Hindsight is easy but basically worthless. I could list tons of examples of teams that missed out on players in the draft. Almost everyone passed on Joe Sakic in the first round. Heck, Quebec took Bryan Fogarty before they eventually took Sakic later in the first round! Years ago, Montreal passed on Mike Bossy, who I believe played for the Montreal Jrs. The Rocket begged management to take him. They took Mark Napier (who was a fabulous junior) instead and the rest is history. And in fairness to Timmins he also made some great late picks in 2003 Lapierre (61), O'Byrne (79) and Halak (271). Other years included Streit (262), Grabovski (150), and S. Kostitsyn (200) As for Fischer and McDonaugh, I believe these two guys are 20 and 19 respectively. It's a little too early to start being judgmental on whether they will make the NHL or not. Same goes for your choice, Angelo Esposito, who hasn't done much since being rated #1 two years ago. Let the Getzlaf thing go and enjoy making some interesting and insightful comments concerning the here and now.

FIVE REASONS WHY CARBO HAS TO GO. I have not been one of those to criticize the coaching because I thought they needed time. But I think it's not the team that sucks, it's a few players that are dragging it down...and the coach who is failing to manage them. So here for me are the top 5 reasons Carbo should go. 1. Not knowing who does what - really. Streit on the first line as a shut-down guy! Didn't Carbo see he's the MINUS leader on the team??? THIS is your ringer shut-down guy against the best team in the league! A joke! How many games has this team lost because of his faith in the wrong people in the wrong situations. 2. Confusion. Juggling lines to produce 5-on-5 scoring works - then he goes back to the old line-up. What's the point of experimenting if you don't benefit from the results. The team must be scratching their heads. The overall feeling is confusion. Ryder is now a defensive player on the grind line? C'mon. 3. Grabovski. This team has some forwards who aren't producing, yet a young dynamic player who needs the ice time sits. There seems to be some strange rules as to who plays and why that defy logic. Certainly though, he's undervaluing the opportunity to develop young players in favor of playing some slumping veterans. 4. Lack of a first line. The team needs a REAL first line - 26 games in you can't be STILL dropping fourth-line guys in there hoping it'll work out. Foolishness. How many games did we lose by a goal? What team can win without a first line that scores? Until he puts a player with real skill in Ryder's place (Kostopoulos' place? Streit's place?), Koivu's talent (and effort) is being wasted. 5. Public blame. No-one benefits from blame. It's like a drug - use it very sparingly or it'll kill ya. Someone on this team needs to believe without a doubt that this team can come back from a deficit, beat any team in the league, and snatch victory from defeat and that starts with the coach. I'm sure everyone is doing their own math on this. But you have to wonder with a team that DOES have strong core talent how long he's going to stay. Strong talent? Yes: - 2 very good goaltenders (who seem to be losing faith) - Markov, Komi, Jorges, and Hamrlik at the back - Kovalev and Koivu leading up front - A strong group of inspired young forwards in Higgins, Plekanic, Kositsyn, and Chipchura... Lats maybe even, who seems to come to play these days. What's wrong with this team? Some would say it's just bad luck. It certainly does seem unlucky lately. But luck comes from doing the right things, making the right gambles. The HABS mistakes - the ones that rattle our momentum and shake the team's confidence - come from the same people, and they're mostly people Carbo seems (for some reason no-one else can fathom) to believe in. Carbo needs to put his faith in the right places, and players. And stop throwing hail mary's with Ryder, Smolinski, Streit, Brisbois. He needs to see where the holes are and plug them. It's not our GOOD players that let the team down, it's the marginal ones. If we can't get a bona-fide star forward, let's at least turf the weak role-players who are scuttling close games. Carbo needs to realize that a coaches job is so different than a player. A coach needs to reward and inspire talent, execution, strength. I see these qualities but not in the players above. Why are these guys still playing major roles in clutch situations. And Bob - where is the trade that will bring us the solid role-players we need. (And what exactly was wrong with Bonk? I forget.) And yeah, a goal-scorer in the top 30 of the league would be helpful too. Besides that I think we have a great team. ____________________________________________________ Thanks for the line changes I asked for Carbs! Now, do the defense!

I'm not a fan of violence in hockey, but Dandenault's pounce on Saumelsson made him my hero of the day. NO ONE TOUCHES SAKU. Ex nihilo nihil fit

At the beginning of the year, I figured the habs would be last in the division. And looking at last night's game, its obvious Montreal needs size, until they get some decent beef, these annual meltdowns -when the powerplay doesn't save them- are only doomed to repeat themselves. Carbonneau can yell at his goalies all he wants, saying the goalies need to steal a game...Thats the problem right there. Good goalies can give you a chance to win a game but to steal one night in night out? Only Vancouver can ask that of their goalie and he is paid accordingly to do so.

What a load of crap, from the first face off after Koivus's first attempt the game was rubbish. Carbo has to go!!! They could not even pass tape to tape, control the puck, all the flippin basics. Hopefully I'll calm down and become more pragmatic but right now this team needs shaking up, they are embarrassing. But like most Habs fans I'll keep supporting and hoping, but I cannot see us making the playoffs with this setup, totally rubbish lines, tactics and positional play and for crying out load SHOOT the puck!

It's not the system, nor the management. The bottom line is the players. When I see the demonstration of a defence first system played by committed players, well, I see a team. And that's what the Red Wings definitely are. Zetterberg and Datsyuk are just as proficient without the puck as with it and guess what? Carbo's been preaching that since Day 1. Too bad the players wearing the Habs uni these days are deaf and stubborn. If this slump continues, maybe they will finally get rid of those who give up on D (Hi, Saku) and work to win. I'm tired of Captain K with his "Well, we worked hard, but..." speeches. The bodies are still warm; it's time to move some because there isn't enough room in the press box for this bunch of underachievers. Gilbert

Carbo is definitely a bit of a douche. He blames everyone but himself when the Habs lose. He's like "I told them to play a perfect game and not turn the puck over against the #1 team in the league but they didn't listen." Of course it has nothing to do with his coaching whatsoever.

Kopitar and getzlaf, Kopitar and getzlaf, Kopitar and getzlaf....don't you get sick of saying the same things day after day after day

zooziff ....you mean Roy the guy who QUIT on the habs for coach & GM, the rocket would roll over in his grave !!!!

All I have to say is WOW!! I've been a Montreal fan for a long time; my second favorite team is Detroit. I have followed Datsyuk and Zetterberg grow into the NHL and they impressed me tonight. They simply do everything well, defense first, and then high skill on offense. Did anyone notice how many times Datsyuk batted the puck out of mid air and then controlled the puck as if it was a daily routine. As for the Canadiens they need some work... As hard as that is to say... we are not a contending team. (Not yet) Detroit on the other hand might just have what it take to win the cup, I feel their missing 1 more top 6 forward. On a Montreal level, time to bench Ryder and Kost.. Belongs in the lineup Striet out or back on D.... I like how Dandy protected out captain... to prove they still care for each other.

Unless something changes in a big way, this team will be in the bottom 5 of the Eastern Conference by the end of December. Mark my words...

As bad as the Habs were manhandled tonight, I feared worse. Trouble is they only showed up in spots. Watching what Detroit does well, and comparing it to the Habs, I think the Canadiens could use their speed similarly if dedicated enough. Confidence, and some faith in each other on the ice are what needs work on the most. http://wwwrealitycheckeyesontheprize.blogspot.com/2007/12/lessons-in-hoc...

Coming from a fan of Michael Ryder, it's time for him to sit a few. I believe that Smolinski should join him there as well, he's not doing anything for us right now. Lapierre -who should have been with us since the beginning of the season- deserves a shot up here again. He could very well be the shot in the arm the team needs, he hauls *** all the time out there and finishes his checks, something we were doing but have seemed to forget about lately. Scoring is an issue still, bring up someone like the Sergei Kostitsyn, stick him with Andrei, see what happens. With all the line experimenting not seeming to work with what we have, try doing it with some younger players who you know are going to play every shift with passion because of the opportunity they're getting. The young will motivate the vets who are taking shifts off lately, if they feel threatened they will play better, or else they'll be watching the games - well at least they should be.

Well this sucks. I wonder what the Post Game excuses were for this farce of a 1/4 season slump? Who's got the flu now? Who's injured? Who laced his left skate first? What this week's excuse? Anyone?? I can't even watch a whole game anymore. I tune in for the highlights and am pleasantly surprised if they pull off a win. Every year same old, Dec hits Montreal sinks. Change all the calendars to Oct in the dressing room, hell everywhere in Montreal. That way everywhere the players go, its Oct and they play like they mean it. Every other month is a disappointment for this team. Might as well do someting drastic and ridiculous to shake off the slump

This is the middle of the end. Bright side: hey, since the swoon is coming early, maybe the late-season push will also come early enough to matter?

well atleast Max Pacioretty made the U.S. team.. as for McDongh i dunno why he isnt on the team it seems like he's having a good season at University of Wisconsin he was player of the week this week over there i think..but our 2006 first rounder..David Fisher looks like a bust!

Listening to post-game comment on RDS from Alain Chantelois. He said basically, the Habs lack talent to compete against a great team like the Wings. My sentiments exactly. Very limited talent pool in Mtl. Gainey, we need some pure goal scorers/power forwards and one more hard hitting D-man. Too many lack-lustre players who've shined among other lack-lustre peers. But, put a guy like Ryder toe-to-toe with other sniper/pure goal scorers in the league and he looks dull. 2 D-men turned forward = serious problems = coaching issues. Somebody better do something soon... not that it will put us in the playoffs, but it might make us look respectable.

This is one of the worst game I ever watch our team play. Initially, we just dump and chase. Our passes are so bad it should not be seen in a NHL game. After we are behind, everyone wants to do it himself. There is no line and no team play. So pathetic!!!! This collapse seems to start when Markov got injury. The team seems to lose its QB. Everyone except Kovalev and Hamrlik are playing much worse than before. Our two checking lines are not checking well. We need to bring guys up from the AHL to shake things up. It can't get any worse than that. Ryder doesn't seem to care anymore. Any player from the AHL will do a better job.

WTF!!!! MCDONAGH AHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! and you mean to tell me they picked some 4rth rounder from this past draft AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! TIMMINS WTF!!!!

Why Habs lost tonight. 16 SHOTS If You can't score you don't win. And this requires you to shoot the puck at the net more. Plain and simple ___________________________________________________ December 1,2007 - rise and fall of the 2007-08 Montreal Canadiens

horrible game all around..Price let in some really weak goals i find, and even worst, our top picks from the last two years couldnt even make the U.S. junior team, Fisher and McDonagh!!!

Was at the game tonight and I noticed many things. I'll list them. -Habs don't win bad when there are long opening ceremonies (i.e. Robinson 19 night) -Some penalty calls (some really obvious, ref right in front of them) missed but that seems to be pretty typical of the 2 ref system. -2 icings that should have been waved off, just in the first period. (I dont really think these missed calls made a difference) -Datsyuk and Zetterberg are really fantastic players and were both a pleasure to watch in the flesh. -Chelios is still plugging strong. -Hasek played bigger than Price, who played below average IMO. -The best hockey the Habs played against Detroit tonight was in the last 2 minutes of the first period coming off a good PK. Good bodychecks. Making Detroit work in the neutral zone. Using speed. -Ryder booed heavily. Ryder isn't the problem. Ryder has been converting slick passes for the past 2 years. There weren't any of those tonight for him. He needs to go back with Koivu or at least get more PP time, pot a couple and he'll come back. I really think he tries hard. -Oh and I almost forgot, Koivu really hates Swedes it seems.

First, I blamed Carbo for this mess we're in. But if you rewind the tape to where the season started, you ask, what has changed? Answer.....NOTHING except that now no one wants to get dirty anymore!!! Their work ethic has diminished. Either they need psyciatric help, or something was said by the wrong person, or both. We had a few moments of dominance but overall, it was an old fashioned *** kicking. As I mentioned in a previous post, we needed to come out tonite with a strong physical game. Instead they came out lame and shakey. If anything is certain, it's that when the DeadWings get hit they fold like a cheap suit. And one more thing, Price is no Roy, not right now and not for a while. The kid will go back down one day and get better. I'm NOT blaming him, for he has tremendous talent, but this environment will do nothing but damage his confidence. He seems to be letting in a higher amount of weaker goals lately. This crap better turn around soon or lights out......

How many half way decent teams would claim Breezer or Streit off of waivers? How many half way decent teams are inquiring about Gorges, or Kostopolous? How many Stanley Cup contenders want Smolinski for depth? None. Memo to Bob: Release Breezer, call up OByrne. Find someone willing to take Ryder and Gorges for a reasonably tough guy or a warm pizza. Call up Lapierre. Shop Dandy...Shop Boullion...

This sucks. :( I was over in Detroit tonight to watch the game with a co-worker at Ilitch's Hockey Town Cafe. I had to apologize to the Wings fans around me for my team not showing up. There was so much excitment leading up to the game, especially for Detroit fans that don't get to see the Habs play very often. And nothing. I have to say though, Detroit looks REALLY good. As someone else mentioned, I'm glad we don't play them 4-8 times a year! Props to Koivu, who played hard and for Dandy for coming to his aid late in the 3rd (though he must have known that Koivu could handle Samuelsson ;)). So, a little off topic but, how many hits has Komi had in his last few games? I saw one (sorta) tonight and very few lately. Sure, the Wings are fast but I saw little to no forechecking tonight and very few hits behind Price.

OK, Habs fan. Listening to cjad, a thought occurred to me. Who is the leader of this Habs team? Who is suppose to moltivate them, provide a spark when their down? Can anybody answer this question. Do Habs have a leader this year? Is it Saku? Kovelev? Higgins? WHO? ___________________________________________________ December 1,2007 - rise and fall of the 2007-08 Montreal Canadiens

Sucks when you get more assists on the other teams goals than you do on your own, and you even score just as many in your own net as you do on the other team.THE ONLY THING MISSING TONIGHT WAS PATRICK ROY BEING PART OF THE OPENING CEREMONIES!!!!!!!!. TIME TO STOP ALL THE USELESS LINE CHANGES......

This whole team better wake up and fast. IF they had one a couple of games during this slump, they would have leapfrogged the Senators and taken over first place!!!!

Disheartening.

ya we mighta lost again, but this ones not as hard to swallow as Saturdays fiasco. At least the boys showed some emotion, my props to Dandeneault, Begin and Koivu for showing some heart. I see to wins coming up against Boston and Carolina. Some of you guys should be future G.M`s. To bad we couldn`t trade some of you guys.What would we get back in return??

I see Red Light Price was in fine form tonight....can anyone say over rated?

this team has zero confidence. what happened to the so-called #1 powerplay?? they can barely get the puck past centre ice. its really frustrating watching a game knowing their going to lose miserably. MUST TRADE KOVALEV and before christmas!

All right all you optimists and Carbonneau supporters, please put a positive spin on this one for me. It was a very good indicator of how far we are from contending.

Face it. We suck. And there's a reason... we have good players, and then we have players who hurt us. GET RID OF THE BAD ONES. Streit. Ryder. Smolinski. Duh-uh. Great game by Gorges, other rookies. At least showing some energy and fight. And Koivu and Kovalev of course. A shame all these good players are being dragged down. ____________________________________________________ Thanks for the line changes I asked for Carbs! Now, do the defense!

the leafs are winning 3-0 against Nashville....I wonder if they suck enough to completely fall apart and blow a three goal lead in their home building?

I don't know how the Wings do it....good coaching i guess...year after year they lead the NHL in shots for, and they allow the fewest shots against...a recipe for success??? no sh*t. They have Lidstrom, an amazing defenseman... Osgood and Hasek? I would hate to see them in a Habs jersey right now. Their defense corp has talent(Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwal), but is neither big nor strong nor intimidating. After their top three forwards (Holmstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg)are really good. after that you have Filpula, Hudler, Cleary, Franzen, SAmuellson..lame.. Has to be coaching, and their dominant players dominate... Thank god the red wings play in the west. If they were in the east like they should, we would lose like this four to eight times annually. And yes we suck. we need at least one superstar on forward or defense to dominate in any fashion. we dont have any of those now are in the foreseeable future...yay for the east's mediocrity so we have a shot at the playoffs and getting eliminated in the first round