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About last night ...
posted by Mike Boone at 0h26 EST on Nov 15
Don't let the score mislead you.
Without Carey Price – tying team records for saves in a period, 23, and a game, 53 – this one is at least 6-0.
And this wasn't San Jose or some other Western Conference Cup contender.
The Nashville Predators began the evening in 12th place in the Western Conference. They had scored 37 goals – tied with woeful Carolina for fewest in the league.
How does a team that can't score rack up 55 shots against the Canadiens?
How does a team that gave Phoenix 20 shots in Thursday's game give Nashville that many in the first 15 minutes?
In addition to the 55 on Price, there were 10 blocked shots and 13 misses. That's 78 times a Predator brought his stick into contact with the puck and sent it in the direction of the Canadiens' net.
The comparable Canadiens total: 37, including 20 shots.
78-37.
That's the basketball score at halftime when the U.S. plays Iceland.
How does Steve Sullivan, who had one goal in Nashville's 17 previous games, bag two while firing 11 shots?
11 shots. Andrei Kostitsyn has 38 THIS SEASON!
Nashville took two minor penalties, both in the offensive zone.
The Canadiens were so docile and unthreatening, Jordin Tootoo couldn't even be bothered to run anyone.
Brutal – and you could read the hopelessness on the faces of the habitually-happy RDS analysts.
Jacques Demers and Joel Bouchard looked like they'd just watched their cocker spaniels hit by a bus.
Maybe their bonuses are pegged to April ratings.
Bouchard was unequivocal: If Jacques Martin gets this team into the playoffs, he's the coach of the year.
But why should he settle for the Jack Adams Trophy?
If Martin gets this squad into the postseason, he'll be one miracle up on beatification?
Think I'm being my usual drama queen/roller coaster/bandwagon hopping self?
After a visit by Carolina on Tuesday – and that won't be a gimme – the Canadiens play in Washington on Friday and return to the Bell Centre for a Saturday date with – gulp! – Detroit.
If Nashville had 55 shots, how many will the Capitals get?
The Red Wings?
Look, I love Brian Gionta. But should his absence reduce the Canadiens to total suckitude?
There have been many injuries on defence, and I'm not going to dump on Jaro Spacek, playing hurt, for a less-than-stellar game. The situation on D was so dire Marc-André Bergeron logged 1:13 on the PK.
Spatch, Roman Hamrlik and Paul Mara played huge minutes, most of the time spent in the exhausting pursuit of the puck in their own zone.
Where was the Jacques Martin system? Where were the forwards coming back to help out against relentless Nashville forechecking and a blizzard of shots coming at Price from all angles?
Apart from depriving Guillaume Latendresse of a well-deserved night in the pressbox, Gionta's injury – a footproblem, and reports are it looks bad – demonstrated the team's lack of depth at forward.
Maxim Lapierre, a centre, played RW with Scott Gomez and Mike Cammalleri.
For a few futile shifts.
Then it was Ryan White on the top line.
I love White. The kid busts his stones on every shift.
But if White is your first line RW, even for part of one game, you've got BIG problems.
The Tomas Plekanec line? Invisible.
The 3Ms did what they could – Metro, Moen and Max-Pac are nothing if not gamers – but they're not difference-makers.
The Montreal Canadiens' only difference maker is Carey Price.
He was the difference between 2-0 and a REALLY embarrassing final score.
And as has been the case in nearly all of his starts this season, Price's teammates played crap in front of him.
They've been better for Jaro Halak, but better than crap still doesn't cut it in a very tough hockey league.
Guys that don't compete for 60 minutes are ... well, roll video on nearly every Habs game.
Give the team 20 games, the more rational pundits advised, heading into the season.
Well, here we are.
The Canadiens are 9-11. They've scored 49 goals and allowed 59.
They are on pace for a 73-point season – which would be the lowest since 70 points in 2000-'01.
That got Alain Vigneault fired and the hapless Réjean Houle replaced by André Savard.
Jacques Martin has finished the first 20 games of a four-year contract. He isn't going anywhere.
Bob Gainey is in Year 7 of the five-year rebuilding plan.
With his fre-agent spending spree, the general manager bet all in. The future of this team is tied to the performance of Gomez, Cammalleri and Gionta.
On a grim night in Music City, the future – near- and long-term – looked kinda bleak and may have had long-suffering Habs fans thinking of a Patsy Cline classic:
I'm crazy for tryin' and I'm crazy for cryin'
And I'm crazy for lovin' you.
Habs Inside/Out main RSS feed
Positive side:
Carey Price's name is now under a lot of franchise records set by goaltenders in Montreal.
http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=52924&navid=DL|MTL|home
Ak 46 and Hal Gill for J. Iginlia
do it Bob!
Well I'm glad I missed the game.
I"m not going to sugar coat last night...less than delightful. What I will say is that wholesale changes were made in order to change the culture of this club. I recall JM saying in training camp,something to the effect of there being alot of bad habits in the way the team practiced.The culture needed to be changed. It will take more than 20 games. We turned over a huge number of faces and the players we seem to have greatest issue with aren't new. They are the players that contributed to the culture that needed changing. The coach is juggling lines but sometimes I wonder whether it has more to do with reaquainting the younger players with the idea of EARNING their minutes. Some of you may say "This is an NHL team and it's about results!" and you won't get an argument from me. You're right. If there is a greater plan at work though, I see it and can get behind it if in the long run we have everyone working like Pleks,Gionta etc.... The culture. It's going to take more than 20 games...
Oh, I can smell the culture changing alright. Like a runny blue cheese.
It IS ripe, isn't it....
It IS possible to identify a problem but not be able to identify the solution. I'm not saying one way or the other whether Gainey should be gone: I'm on record with my thoughts on that matter, and I'm trying to avoid beating you over the head with the same thoughts over and over.
However, I sometimes despair at the complete lack of imagination demonstrated by fans and media figures alike when discussing potential replacements for fired coaches and general managers. We always hear the same tired names coming up in these discussions as former coaches and GMs, many of whom failed in their first go around, are recycled for name appeal.
When I look around the league at some of the personnel decisions made by teams that have made coaching moves, for example, some of the most successful seem to have come for teams that went outside the box. Bruce Boudreau (Washington), Cory Clouston (Ottawa) and Dan Bylsma (Pittsburgh) are all guys that came into their jobs with not only little fanfare, but often interim tags because they were expected to be sacrificial fodder while the team found one of those sacrificial coaches. Along the way, they managed to coach their teams to success, forcing their teams to realize that they already had the right guys in place.
I'm not enough of a hockey expert to know who the up-and-coming star coaches and administrators are...if I was, I sure as heck wouldn't be on this website discussing things with the rest of you, but would instead be making some good coin working for a professional sports franchise. That I am not that expert doesn't in any way preclude my ability to identify a problem and/or criticize the organization for errors that I think they are making, especially if I take the time to explain why I am being critical. I understand some of the frustration when people bleat about what they like/don't like, but on the flip side, this attitude that one can't discuss a perceived problem unless they have an answer ready at hand is equally annoying.
I was one of the people that liked the Martin hiring. My issue is that, should he go, there is no reason to not consider thinking outside the box. My original comment is more an expression of exasperation with this "Well, who else is available out there?" line of thinking. Just because we haven't heard from people does not mean they would not make much better coaches or GMs than the recycled ones we're seeing pop up all the time.
The guys to keep an eye out for are the ones that work their way from junior to the AHL...they are clearly the ones with aspirations to coach in the NHL. I'm not convinced that Patrick Roy wants to coach in the NHL yet, while a guy like Dale Hunter may not be as successful in the NHL when he doesn't have some of the recruiting advantages that London enjoys. A guy like Red Berenson of the University of Michigan has clearly shown he's not interested in going anywhere.
One coach I was watching before the Habs hired Jacques Martin was Kevin Constantine. I don't really consider him a recycled coach despite his NHL experience, guiding a very bad Sharks roster to some decent results and even picking up an Adams Trophy along the way. He's been toiling his way up the ranks in the past 10 years. He had a very good run in the WHL, coaching the Everett Silvertips to the best ever finish for an expansion team in its first season, leading them to the WHL finals. He's been back in the AHL for the past two seasons, leading the Houston Aeros to a cumulative 83-60-11 record over his first two seasons. A disciplinarian who has demonstrated an ability to work with young players in his WHL stint, he is a coach I would like to see given an NHL shot.
Myself I would love to see Ted Nolan behind the habs bench.
I too would've welcomed a fresh new face and new approach to the game from behind the bench. It seems like we've been treading water for years just trying to keep our noses above the waterline. I'm all for patience, as long as I feel progress is being made. These sudden jerky moves over the last two years don't seem thoughtful or helpful. Just reactions. Much like much of the commentary surrounding this team.
so after 20 games were 9-11.... well just that numbers tells us alot about our season, i always have faith and i always hope for a 25th cup but this season looks very bleak.
Going to watch football today, need a little break.
Best advice I've heard all day. At least there we're guaranteed some scoring.
News Flash Boys And Girls....Parity Is Now Here In The NHL.
This league is now made up of three kinds of hockey players. Now that the new drafting rules and salary cap have starting to have a pronounced effect on a teams ability to acquire more than their fair share of the top level players.
Their are only 25% of players that are considered elite playing in the league. Followed by about 55% of roll players and plumbers. And their are another 20% of players in the league that are of AHL caliber, either replacement players or kids that are works in progress.
With the new rules and cap in place for some years now it is starting to take a large bite out of teams ability to retain their top quality players and they are being scooped up by the teams that lack elite players. Therefore league parity is now the order of the day.
The only way to acquire cheep elite talented players now is through the draft by finishing at the bottom each year as did Pittsburgh. But then the pressures of higher salaries come into play as the young talent blossoms.
So how does a team from the middle of the pack talent wise reach the top of the heap?
Well it has to be done by welding the middle portion of your talent together with a solid winning philosophy and system. This can only be done over time if everyone is on the same page both management and players. Starting on the farm and throughout the whole organisation.
GMs, scouts and coaches are much more crucial to the success of the organisation than years past. They have to find the best possible talented and character players that understand and can implement a sound and rigid form of TEAM play.
I think the cleaning house and bringing in veteran coaching, both in Hamilton and Montreal with the same philosophy was necessary to enable us to grow our organisation into a winner. But oh my! is it ever frustrating to watch at times. But we will get there!!!
See you all at the Summit!
Good post, Ian, right on.
things are never as bad as they seem, just as things are never as good as they seem.
this team has been depleted by injuries. especially on D. for a team supposedly built from the net out, that's a big problem. when MAB and Leach are playing big minutes, it's a problem. how can you score goals when the D can't get the puck out of the zone? can't make a decent break out pass?
Once the D stabilizes, our offense will start to improve marginally. and if Price keeps playing the way he did last night, this team will be fine. we're definitely not a top team, but when healthy, we have a playoff calibre team.
Gainey's work is not perfect. but you can't blame him for injuries.
Our Habs have become very community minded, spreading cheer all across the league. Like a candy toss. See Montreal on your schedule and just get ready to pick up your 2 points.
I feel sorry for Price, damm shame that he has to face so many shots and absolutley no offence to back him up.
Bob Gainey cleaned house this summer after seeing a lot of things he didn't like. He couldn't really dismantle the team because that would have acknowleged that he had failed. He looked at the options he had (as limited as they might have been), and then decided to roll the dice. Most HIO posters jumped on board and embraced the new team that was put before them. That team has now stumbled out of the gate and the mob is calling for blood. However, you must ask yourself a realistic question - what can be done right now? We have quite a few players signed to long term contracts and very little cap space to manoeuvre with during the next few years. Stop gap measures and band-aids will only worsen the situation. LIke it or not, Bob's summer refit at least deserves a few years to see if it has real merit. Even the most disillusioned fan must at least admit that injuries and the delayed development of some of our young players has had a significant impact on our year so far. Both of these problems could easily turn around next year.
Our options are few, and our best bet right now to try and weather the storm. Rash moves and knee jerk firings will only make a bad situation worse. We can't just end Gainey's brave new world after just 20 games. I was never a supporter of his moves during the past year, but even I can see that we must stay calm during the face of adversity.
One thing is for sure. If Gainey is fired, Hab fans may well be shocked at what happens (or needs to happen) next.
Steve,
Lets get to the point. If the players held over from last year were doing anything, the Habs would be at least .500 w/o Markov. You see, there is nothing the Habs can do as the FA's have done their job more or less, it is last years hold overs that have done ZEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Start with #40 a junk year, #84 a missing year, #46 a perplexing less than zero year, #67 should be playing college. #74 an idiotic year. These are the ones to point the fingers at. You add all their goals together and Cammy has at least equalled their production by himself.
Gainey is an easy scapegoat for players that have stunk out the joint so far this year. Put the blame where it belongs at those that have not produced.
Yeah blame the GM, no, BLAME THE PLAYERS!
Bob has changed the culture of the team. Now we need to change the culture of the management.
- Someone who is more flexible and will sign contract during the season if it is good for the team.
- Someone who will trade away Bob's players for the fuiture of our team.
- Someone who doesn't trade away drafts just to get into the playoff.
If JM fits the bill, I would give him a try.
Winston - I guess that's what I was alluding to in my last sentence of my post. If Gainey gets fired, one of two things will happen. Another GM will come in and do cosmetic surgery under the guise of taking us in a new direction. Or, there will be a blood letting that will strip down the team to it's bare footings and do a total rebuild that addresses the REAL needs of the franchise. My point is that Gainey should at least be given a 2nd year to see through his new plan. Especially in light of the fact that we have faced some pretty tough circumstance during our first 20 games.
I agree re "knee jerk firings". The instant gratification crowd needs to back off. Mike says "bad" that we have 62 games left. I say "good", we have 62 games left. We obviously need the time.
People with short memories should go back on the archives of Hockey Streams or CenterIce and watch some games from last Spring. Can't blame Bob Gainey for trying some major moves to get the engine back on track.
I must admit we need to see some good solid pattern play and TEAM effort right away. This is a state of mind for the players, and as such is a Jacques Martin challenge.
The game last night was horrendous, and reminded me of a game last year when they played Florida and lost badly. I thought that both were "bottom of the barrel"
Which is why every time I see "Fire Bob Gainey" posted on here, my first thought is always "Be careful what you wish for."
In most cases, those calling for his head haven't really taken the next step - or, at least, are not articulating it in their posts - and, let's face it, in these situations it's not who you get rid of it's who you bring in that really matters.
(The only glaring exception to the above rule is Mike Milbury. In his case, all that matters is getting rid of him. Heck, you could replace him with a bag of doorknobs and the situation would inevitably improve due to the addition-by-subtraction effect. But, I digress.)
It's impossible to agree with everything a GM does. It is, however, possible to agree with a lot of what that person does. I personally believe Gainey handled his UFA situation last year with a level of strategic foresight that would be lost on most people. If Gainey had gone the McGuire route - which is the opposite of what he actually did - my belief is the Habs, at this point in the season, would be making the Loafs look good. In analyzing that belief, one has to look at the whole package and not selectively pick-and-choose in order to support one argument or another.
This year, Gainey's UFA portfolio is a lot more straightforward and I suspect he may go a different route. Again, I believe what happens to Pleks, for example, hinges on how Gainey handles the Brothers K situation.
I respect the opinion of those who want Gainey gone. Having said that, it would really raise the overall quality of the discussion if they would present realistic alternatives and flesh out how the situation would be improved under the direction of that new individual, keeping in mind that GMs walk into situations relatively handcuffed.
JD
Why is Gainey getting blamed here for letting the Preds get 55 shots? Why is Gainey to blame for tired players not showing up? Why is Gainey to blame for all the injuries???
Come on, man.
Heh.
I think you might have been responding to someone else's post.
Cheers,
JD
Oops, sorry JD, you're right I was.
Your comment about Gainey handling "his UFA situation last year with a level of strategic foresight that would be lost on most people" is not only condescending, but also begs the question "what foresight?" If you mean allowing all RFA's to become UFA's and then to leave without compensation, followed by overspending for over-priced replacements that result in poorer performances, well then, yes, that's foresight alright.
Given I really didn't hear one commentator agree with Gainey's apparent inaction on the UFA front during the season last year - nor do I recall reading any posts here agreeing with it - I would suggest that what Gainey was up to was lost on most people. Most people. I certainly didn't know what he was up to. Presumably, from what you're telling me, that renders me guilty of auto-condescension, as well.
Moving along.
Gainey had 10 UFAs last season. He didn't want most of them back. Signing 1 or 2 of them in mid-season and ignoring the rest would have been almost impossible to manage message-wise. Based on his actions, I can only presume he was interested in Komi and Kovy, and I'm not even entirely certain in the case of the latter.
That's why the Pleks situation is so much more transparent this season and I expect will be handled differently.
Take, on the whole, the performance of those who have left versus those that have come in, e.g., points, +/-, and you'll find your last comment difficult to support. As I have argued, I believe the Habs would be in even worse shape if Gainey had kept the team intact.
Best,
JD
Great post, If I thought that there was a better GM than Bob available I'd go for it. For all the nooses being tied I haven't see anyone come up with a name. Might as well realize that we will not see playoff hockey in Montreal this spring. Make a few off season adjustments and have a go of it next year. In the meantime we'll see a lot of youth and if the team can play well ending the season that would be encouraging.
I am your basic frustrated fan. I don't see a solution. I think Gainey did a good job of signing new players, and that almost all the guys who went should have. I'm sorry Koivu didn't retire a Hab, but he wasn't ready to retire last year and in a salary cap league, he had to go.
What happened with Ryder was a shame, as was the Streit (and Dumont) non-signing. Otherwise, most of the problems I see don't revolve around the stars. It's the depth. Pacioretty is a future NHLer who deserves to be in the AHL. Ditto Sergei, Chipchura, Latendresse and a few others. There is too much AHL on this team.
Struggling players can't be sent down due to the CBA. And so they languish, over their heads and soon get tossed under the bus.
Every team has its AHLers - this is not the six, twelve or even 20 team NHL anymore. The talent is too thin for the ambition and greed of the owners, and the best of the AHL are now marginal NHL veterans. The NHL itself is run like the CFL used to be, and is a sad unprofessional professional league.
Until there is a collapse in the southern franchises, hockey will be a poor spectacle. I don't know what miracle fixes a new GM could provide. The Habs have little to offer, and the process will be long. I like Gainey to run it, because he wasn't afraid to gamble in the off season, and, a key point - this team is much better that it was at the end of that year. It sucks, but it doesn't suck in the same old way. It will suck for two or three or more years. There are no miracles, for any GM, and I think Gainey has made interesting moves to address the mediocrity that is the Habs organization. We'll see if they pay off. Stay the course... or panic and hire Mario Tremblay and Jean Perron.
... Tidbits, Highlites and the Odd Disagreement from all divisions for 11-15-09 by Empty Netter Assists ..... http://community.post-gazette.com/blogs/emptynetters/archive/2009/11/15/empty-netter-assists-11-15-09.aspx
the markov injury has had a major impact on the team but the rest of the injured players beyond gionta(one game) have been with interchangeable players ...other teams this year had much more impact players injured ..
After the first 20 games the team record is 9-11. Seems to me they're giving fans a warning sign of what's to come, 9-11, or dial 9-1-1 it's gonna be a long year. lol
the problem has been drafting ...gainey takes the same type of player...how many teams in the nhl would trade their top 6 under 23 forward prospects for ours?...not one young forward on the team or ahl that we can say will be an impact scorer in a few years ....
Well, outside of some spectacular - even herioc - goaltending by Price (hope we can see more of that form in the future), last night was a SUCKFEST. There's no other way to describe it.
This team, as I have said before, is not playoff bound. It relies heavily on a few above-average players to compete. When those player are either injured or not having a good game, this team is doomed!
I'm not looking forward to the next few games, especially the Wings and Caps. It's going to be a very long season.
Gainey needs to go. Period. Fans have been patient, but enough is enough. Problem is that whoever replaces him will have a huge, long-term project to make this team consistently competitive again.
Godspeed...
I didnt realize Markov's injury was Gainey's fault. I didnt know that GUI!s complete inability to develop was his fault either.
Gainey put in place the players, but too many have failed to develop. That's on departed Don Lever and now on the new coaching staff.
Bob didnt cause the injury woes on the back end, and we have little room or assests to deal for help. All teams are in the same boat when injuries happen.
We have to be patient and let PK and Maxwell and Max-Pac develop.
That being said, the last thing we need are more undersized hockey players. We need some serious muscle in this lineup.
here's the thing; outside of a couple of games, the D or goaltending hasn't been a big problem (despite injuries). The ongoing issue on this team has been its inability to score when it counts or get a lead and hold it. Bob put together this team and particularly his new top line. That top line isn't playing like a real scoring line - we've seen a few flurries of scoring, but mostly they aren't getting goals at clutch times. Sure, Gainey isn't to blame for injuries or even AHL player development. But, he manages the team; he put it together; he thought he had a talented & competitive group. He was wrong. He should go.
PS - take a look at J. Ambrose rant below. I noticed you didin't comment on it.
Last time I checked, Markov was a huge part of our offence...
I've been biting my lip since the season began -- until blood started dripping into my beer. I've been stifling myself, meathead, trying to respect the hallowed 20-game grace period to allow this wild chemistry experiment to bubble up out of the beaker with magical properties. Well, here we are, and I've just got to vent.
I hated these personnel changes from the start, and told anyone around me who would listen (including you, Mike). It all smacked of frantic desperation by a GM who allowed overdue contracts to sit in his in-box, well past due-date, confident that anyone who didn't come begging for employment could easily be replaced. When some chose to exercise their right to explore all offers (because that is the definition of "free agency"), he peevishly said "right, then I'll get other players." He treated a player who had been the heart and soul and identity of the team for 13 seasons with callous disregard, and while classier organizations, like The Red Wings, would have offered a similar player the chance to finish his career in a city to which he had given so much, or the option of playing for whomever he wished with an affectionate and gracious parting, our former captain of 9 years was left dangling to find work elsewhere. And while the GM resolved to purge the locker-room of its toxic personalities, he hung on to two of the most troublesome characters of last season, the Kosty-boys.
Don't get me wrong, I fully believe the likes of Cammalleri, Gionta, and Gomez are truly talented players, and any would have been valuable assets added judiciously to the mix of last year's roster. But trying to create a top line out of three undersized forwards is insanity. We've all seen what teams like the Bruins and Pens can do to them by focusing their strong-armed defenders on them. And I whole-heartedly reject the assertion that the above three are a major upgrade on Koivu, Kovy, and Tanguay, because that omits Lang from the equation. Besides that, hockey is a team sport where superior individual talent is always trumped by dynamic synergy between players well-suited to each other. The greatest folly of all was that Gomez contract. I like the guy, and appreciate what he brings to the rink: a fast-paced north-south game. But he lacks creativity, and his executive-suite salary leaves us with no wiggle room under the cap. Basically, his contract cost us another forward, thus necessitating the use of 3rd liners and AHL'ers on our top lines..
Yes, changes needed to be made. But, starting from the rash decision to fire Carbo in March, our laconic GM has, it appears to me, been floundering in the woods trying to find a way back out to the garden. When things started to tumble out of control, a little patience and smart, key changes were required. Not sweeping the dishes off the table to smash on the floor, and say that we'll make a whole new menu. Even the hiring of Jacques Martin seemed like a bizarre move. Martin boasts a coaching record of only .552, and a losing playoff record. His teams in Florida were woeful. What made that decision even more incredible was the revelation that one of the most respected players in the history of the franchise was interested but never approached, despite the fact he coached the Devils to a Stanley Cup (and would surely have helped a defense in desperate need of guidance).
Yes, we have been missing our best player, and had Russian tendons not been severed on the cowboy's boot, perhaps we would now be lamenting that we are only a game above .500, rather than 2 below it. However, every hockey analyst predicted before this season began that the current Habs line-up, including Markov, would be struggling for 8th place come April.
So why? If so many welcomed these sweeping changes with such zeal two months ago, and Jacques Martin was hailed as a great "systems" coach able to sort out our defensive zone mayhem, why, why, why are we now 3 wins behind our records of both of the last two seasons and continue to look disorganized and impotent? Where is the progress? If no progress, why all the changes? If the focus was on developing the young talent for long-term stability, shouldn't they been insulated with proven veteran Habs, like Koivu and Kovalev?
Again, it all looked then, and looks now like knee-jerking in a state of panic by a GM who first over-reacted under the burden of Centennial hoopla and pandemic injuries, and then got so fixated on securing Vincent Lecavlier that he had no default position when it went pear-shaped, and so was left scrambling to fill holes. And we now have a roster that has definite talent, but that simply doesn't fit together. And I'm left daydreaming about the thrilling hockey played two seasons ago, and even at times last year, between injury outbreaks.
And so here we are, with a sub-.500 club, a coach who seems to have more answers than his predecessor but no effective responses, and the prospect of more UFA's saying farewell at the season's end. And the CH just keeps getting more and more tarnished.
I agree with some, disagree with some, but I mainly want to mention how well-written this is!
Full Breezer 4 Life
I think that Plan A really was to obtain Vinny Lecavalier at the draft. The sense of anticipation was palpable. When this plan failed it started a series of events which spiralled to the tune of 23 million (Gomez, Cammalleri, Gionta, Spacek). If you remove Gomez and Spacek from the mix that's about 12 million dollars, just enough to sign Koivu, Kovalev, Tanguay and Lang.
Bear with me now (and who would say if Gionta and Cammalleri would have signed with us without Gomez) but the lines of:
Koivu Kovalev Tanguay
Gionta Plekanec Cammalleri
or any combination thereof would have been awesome this year.
I really think the K brothers are more of a problem than the NY brothers (Higgins, Komo) but they made a dynamite line with Lang last year.
Add to that mix Metro, Moen (and/or TTB) and Laps and we have a solid fourth line.
Gui! and Max and possibly Laps would have gone down to Hamilton.
Just an observation in hindsight.
why the changes...because the team was sold and the molsons spent 650M not to see some or most of the old guard back. molsons were not comfortable seeing the same thing happen this year so under gainey and iam sure they approved Gainey did what he had to do and signed new players to obscene contracts. he over paid like all the GM'S do.
Excellent post! A sober and realistic assessment of the Gainey years. He was a truly great player, but his record as our GM will go down in infamy as one of our darkest hours.
It will take years to undue the damage he has done. We need to purge the organization, and infuse it with new, young,creative minds. Stop romanticizing our past, and concentrate on creating a new legacy of winning.
Valid points all the way through, this team will never flourish under Gainey's reign.
I agree with you completely!
p.s. my apologies for the long rant. I've been saving it up for 20 games and was about to burst. I'm better now, thanks.
hit the nail on the head. good, and true post.
if giotna is out for an extended period of time....martin's gotta suck in his pride and call up sergei kostitsyn...
but i guess we'll be seeing ben maxwell pretty soon then.
- we need a MARKOV.
Everyone said that we had to give the Montreal Canadiens 20 games to find out what kind of team they were. Well, do we have our answer? The way I see it, Motnreal has largely been regressing for the past three weeks or so, and offensively, the team is a joke. Outside of the Cammaleri (I can NEVER spell his name correctly) Gionta Gomez line, no one on the team can do anything.
Sigh..............
Pleks?
He's a no one?
Well , this brightened my day as i watched the highlights this morning
THOMAS COMPLETLY GAVE THAT GOAL UP IN OT....he looked like he didnt even give a crap - NASTY
The AV's lost to the Nucks 8-2.....NASTY
Laffs lost again......AWESOME
Life aint so bad is it......I hope JM is focusing on SHOTS...SHOTS....BAG SKATE!!! and some SCORING perhaps. We have been outshooting a lot of opponents in the last 20 games.....its the lack of secondary scoring that kills.....WORK ON IT.....cause we can NOT loose to the canes next game......and we cannot be outshot
GOHABSGO!!!!!
Did anyone see the smack-down Doan laid on Gionta? He literally body slammed him to the ice. I am sure Gionta is mangled from that body blow. I love small hockey players, when they are parts of a big mean team, and by that I mean 1 or 2 at most. Right now if we added a big body or two, they'd be parts of a small soft team. It's a fact. The Habs are getting pushed around out there. Defensive units just need to stand up and watch as Habs try and skate around them. I figure, if we're lucky, that the Habs'll have a pretty decent team in 3 or 4 years. Until then it's gonna be ugly.
My mea culpa; SD, doug, Chris, you guys were right, I was wrong.
20 games in is not the time to be deciding if Gainey's moves worked or not, particularly with all the injuries wreaking havoc. Let's wait until next summer and see what the team can put together. My beefs were solely related to the salary cap issues...I've never believed the Habs were ready to contend (still think that that is 2-3 years off) with all the young players on the roster.
So if you're apologizing to me, don't. I haven't a clue if I'm any more right than you were. And to be honest, I would much that the optimists have their way than having my summer fears coming to reality.
And to add insult to injury, Doan is Carey Price's cousin!
i just don't understand how we can give such a gritty effort in calgary, and then own phoenix (who is by NO means a bad team), and then play like a bunch of Bantam B hackers against the NASHVILLE PREDATORS of all teams. I don't get it. We're not a bad team at all. We've proven that. We can play very hard and dominate. Yet somehow, we look like a different team every night.
Guillaume Latendresse - to the minors
Max Lapierre - to the 4th line
AK46/SK74 - package them and get us a good second line winger for plekky
then, lets finish last and pick up taylor hall. that would be fine with me.
I coached a Bantam B team and they were MUCH better than what the Habs showed us last night...
hahaa im reading this 2 weeks after the fact. awesome comment lol
Interesting comparison:
M-A Bergy, with 13 games has 3g, 6pts. -3
AK46, with 20 games has 1 g, 5pts., -4
When defencemen start coming back, maybe MAB should play forward?
Well I say forget the playoffs call it a total rebuild year. Cycle prospects through the team for evaluation if they could play in the NHL. Then Habs would know who they keep. The main reason I say forget the playoffs?
Habs can afford to miss the playoffs and will get the lost money back in gold later on. There are other teams that cannot not financially survive missing the playoffs. if Habs are out of the running for the most part by the trade deadline they are in great bargaining shape to unload some high salary and better still to sign some good young prospects to fit the team as well as possible draft picks.
If Montreal trys to make deals at the trade deadline to make the playoffs out of desperation it would mean selling the farm for what a Mats Sundin or Mathew Schnieder? Remember the great Habs teams used to supply great players that were in their last career years.
Gainey tried trading picks for example Tanquay a huge failure, wait until we list all the names players Habs could have drafted with those picks.
You know your team is bad when you lost a game 7-1 and they already a worse game before the first quarter of the season is over...
The fact Cammalleri, Gomez and Gionta are better than Tanguay, Koivu and Kovalev doesn't change the fact our top 3 guys weren't the problem last year: our lack of depth was! In fact, the fact that none of the six players I mentionned left or came via a trade also shows how poorly we manage our money. A better team would have been able to have all six players at the same time and have a good group of forwards. Not a great one, just a good one. Being so close to the cap and having so many holes to fill is our biggest problem right now.
Interesting stat:
When MTL wins about 500 to 800 posts
When MTL loses about 1000-1200 posts.
I wonder what HIO wants to happen.
just kidding, it's a rainy sunday so lets chill out and enjoy football, anyone have any locks of the day they want to share ????
____________________________________ Why don't we have a captain ?
i'm in bed with a fever and a really important work week coming up. i have bigger problems than this silly game. i really hope i am somehow back on my feet tomorrow but it just kicked in yesterday and you haven't seen a whiner until you've seen me with the flu.
No flu bug can last long around your temperment Doug!!, you will be up and running in no time.
See you in Montreal next weekend my friend.
in the last 10 years I can't remember a cold worth remembering. echinacea and cold f/x work wonders for me. read up on them, stock up on them!!!
Scotch is the way to go____________________________________ Why don't we have a captain ?
Price was great last night. Next week he won't be able to carry Halak's luggage. Nashville often takes lots of shots. Their top guys don't hold a candle to ours in terms of point production. They outshot Dallas in a 6 to 0 loss. Big surprise that they got a lot of shots against a team made up of 50% AHLers. The league as it now produces parity. Next week the Habs may be winning 5 by five, while Nashville is losing. We will see next April.
Just read Boone and about 10 posts. My thoughts, first and foremost it's a game. A diversion. Something to enjoy. So even if they were outshot 600-3 I am not going to get worked up about it.
Second, it's one game. They are a couple of games under .500 and struggling with injuries and consistency. The consistency we knew would be a problem because the team was completely new and the injuries have compounded things. The result is really ugly last night and not pretty so far. But there are 62 games left and it will get better. Their place in the standings at this point in the season is moot. Let's put that in perspective. the Rangers (who are in 5th place after 20 games) have five more points. The Canadiens can close that gap in 3 games. I still say if they are at .500 until Markov gets back they will finish in the playoffs.
What we all have now is a little adversity. I for one am going to enjoy watching how the team faces it and works their way through it... and we all know they could be the better for it. Watching how the fans face it, not so enjoyable. The team needs to step up... how about the fans do the same thing.
What I see is a team without the size up front to break through bigger team's defenses. Cammy, Gionta and Gomez individually are all very good players. Gomez and Gionta are great, but Cammy doesn't have enough size or weight to create space for those two. If those three are put together the scoring depth after that becomes Plex, Metro and Moen. Yikes!!!
those are all valid points. but what about those of us without lives? what of us? am i to find a relationship? restore things with my estranged family? find a job? what of us?
it's easy for YOU to say it's only a game, etc. but what about me, sitting in the rent-free apartment listening to habs games on the transistor radio every second or third night and having to suffer through this? what about ME?
My biggest apprehension: in so much as we suck so bad I worry that we'll still end up 10th or 11th in the division at season's end and get nothing at the draft.
If at the time of Markov's return the Habs are well out of the playoff race, please, pretty please, don't play Markov, keep him on the IR.
Carey Price played really well.
i love the simplicity of this accurate statement, 12 hours after the game ended, twocents. I picture a twitching, anxious guy walking around the house pulling at his hair and fiddling with his clothing, trying to come up with something positive to say, and muttering under his breath repeatedly "carey price played really well. . . goaltending wins games. . . carey price was good. . . it will be okay." ;)
the other way to look at it might be "everyone but carey price didn't play very well"!
I am glad you enjoyed it, Doug. It was played for that type of reaction. :o)
However, at the risk of destroying the image you have conjured, that's not quite the way it is on this end. There simply isn't much to say. The obvious has been covered thoroughly.
I am not sure where you place me on your perspective spectrum. I have certainly never felt sure "it will be okay". This team has more question marks than a Jack Todd piece.
I have a reasonable best case scenario in mind. It came to mind after Markov's injury. So far it's not that much off track in a bottom line sense, namely points. But, the disconcerting thing is the direction they are going in at this stage of the season, due mainly, I believe, to the team's state of health.
I don't need to placate myself with a mantra of "it will be okay' anymore than you need to gain pleasure from seeing your solemn prognostications seemingly coming to pass... at least I hope you don't need that.
I don't know if it will be okay... you don't know if it will be a total disaster... it's sports in an environment of parity for the vast majority of teams, little is predictable.
So we watch and comment here, whatever we have to add.
Today, my contribution WAS slight.
I know you were having fun, so was I in my first post. You got that, I appreciate it. But, not everybody would, so I made my point.
Well done, Eric, i like this part, it says a lot ..... I don't need to placate myself with a mantra of "it will be okay' anymore than you need to gain pleasure from seeing your solemn prognostications seemingly coming to pass... at least I hope you don't need that.
Price 3rd Star of the Night on NHL.com
Ex nihilo nihil fit
(double post)
I missed the game last night. Thank God.
Ex nihilo nihil fit
For those who want to blow the team up ... it's impossible. Who is going to take Gomez's contract? Or Hamrlik's? Their salaries alone will probably represent 25% of next year's salary cap. I like both of those players a lot ... but 25% of your salary for them? That is brutal resource allocation. Gionta's salary is also unmoveable, ditto Laraque's.
It would be pretty easy to find takers for Cammalleri, provided his production holds up, but he's the only high-salary guy that could be moved, well him and Markov. So, blow it up? This team is indestructible.
The only thing I know about this team: next year it will have Gomez, Camalleri, Gionta, Hamrlik, and Spacek, and about 20 million dollars left to spend on the other 17 players.
Full Breezer 4 Life
Ya, who would be stupid enough to take on Gomez' ridiculously over priced contract?
No GM in the league would be that stupid, tell em mr Gainey, no one in.... umm nevermind. At least we didn't give up one of our best young prospects on the blueline for...... oh we did? craaaaaaap.
Good point, Bill.
It certainly supports the contention that if Gainey wants to make any personnel changes, the most likely route will have to be a 3-for-1 or 4-for-2 trade scenario, largely comprised of 3rd and 4th liners and with medium-term outcomes that will be very difficult to assess; i.e., we're not bringing in any 1st liners via the trade route unless Gainey is prepared to make a 1st line sacrifice on O or D.
JD
you're spot on, as usual. i love the line about this team being indestructible - it's a clever interplay to describe such a horribly weak team as indestructible, and yet it sure is.
i really don't think we have enough players to field a team right now. injuries, slumps, and not good enoughs. . . we have four players (when gionta is healthy) upfront even if two are overpaid and untradeable as you outlined. then we have fourth liners for as far as the eye can see. we have an unbelievable array of fourth liners, really. we may have the deepest team in the league if it came to the number of guys in our franchise who are straddling 3rd/4th line and the AHL. I give you:
latendresse (3rd/AHL)
chipchura (4th/AHL)
stewart (4th/AHL)
laraque (4th)
metropolit (3rd/4th on a normal team in a normal year for him)
white (3rd/4th/AHL)
paccioretty (3rd/AHL)
pyatt (4th/AHL)
lapierre (3rd)
skots (2nd/3rd/AHL apparently)
d'agostini (3rd)
moen (3rd/4th)
i'm probably missing someone - but competition warms the heart, no?
and then there's the defense, where we have a similar overabundance of bubble talent
bergeron (PP specialist/retired)
gill (third pairing/not dressed)
o'byrne (third pairing albeit hopefully rising)
leach (3rd pairing/AHL)
carle (3rd pairing/AHL)
belle (3rd pairing/AHL)
"Bergeron (PP specialist/retired)" ... lol.
Yeah, you're right. Another way to look at the depth is to try to make lines with guys placed where their abilities suggest they should be placed. i.e., without White on the second line. Here's what I come up with:
Legit 1st line nobody - nobody - Cammalleri
Legit 2nd line Gionta - Gomez/Plekanec - AK46
Legit 3rd line Moen - Metro - Lats?
Legit 4th line White - Laps - Pyatt ... or whomever
Legit 1st D Nobody - Nobody (Markov obviously, but NA)
Legit 2nd D Spacek - Hamrlik
Legit 3rd D Mara - O'Byrne/Gill/Leach, etc.
Goaltending ... we're good.
So basically ... the ENTIRE TEAM is playing out of their depth. We have 2nd liners trying to be 1st liners, 3rd and 4th liners trying to be 2nd liners ... 2nd pair D trying to be first pair D, and AHL/should retire D trying to be 3rd D. So it's no wonder if the team isn't having great success; the wonder is that this team is somehow at the Cap!
They're trying ...they just can't do it.
Full Breezer 4 Life
Thanks Doug for doing what I wanted to do, but did it better.
Couple of things though:
O'Byrne (2nd - 3rd at worst)
Lapierre (3rd-4th, his type is easy to find)
Guimauve (3rd, if he wakes up and looks at old Leclair videos 2nd)
And how about signing Leclair to teach Guimauve how to play the way he did ? I think he lives in Vermont or something, takes as much time to get to MTL as it is from St-Lazare to MTL.
____________________________________ Why don't we have a captain ?